An innerview with John de
Ruiter by Ojas de Ronde
In February 2000, John de Ruiter
was in the Netherlands where his parents were born. People could
meet him in the Kings Room of the Artis Partycenter in Amsterdam.
His invitation was: "Let the tenderness of Truth awaken
the reality you have searched for, but could never seem to find."
Since I saw an interesting press release and knew a few friends
who were profoundly moved by him, I went to the meeting on the
9th of February. After the meeting, I stayed with a lot of questions
that I felt would be interesting for the broader public, so I
asked him for an interview, and he agreed.
What surprised me was how the presence
of a person and his message could have such an effect on the
audience. There was a deep, intense silence in the Kings Room,
and the energy was high. His words were sober, flying like birds,
reaching the hearts of the people. It was as if one was listening
to the song of a nightingale, singing in the darkness of a silent
night. And once in a while there was the scream of a woman, who
could not hold the energy anymore. I wanted to bring this back
to my interview to clarify several questions. I wanted to analyse
the ins and outs of his meetings with people. And I was interested
in his background. Was it true that during his teenage years,
he had a period of spontaneous awakening? What was the reaction
of the Christians when he talked about this? Does he explore
New Age concepts? Is there, at the turn of a new millennium,
a new religion starting? How does he unveil reality?
I tell John how I was impressed by
the awesome tenderness of this meeting in the Artis Partycenter,
and touched by the explosions of energy.
John: "This afternoon was a manifestation of the Divine
to people. It is manifesting reality through energy, through
words; directly transmitting it to people, for them to experience
it within themselves."
Is any preparation needed?
John: "I never prepare. There is never a thought before
a meeting concerning what I am going to talk about this time.
There is just no thinking, no preparation, no wondering. It makes
no difference to me if I sit in a chair and there is nothing.
I would not speak then. There is no personal agenda such as,
'I hope this meeting goes well', because it makes no personal
difference. There is absolutely no preparation."
Are the words coming like in channelling?
John: "When there is a question, I am not channelling
anything. I am not a medium for these words to come out. They
are what I am. It is a pure and simple
response that is real from within, and that extends itself outward.
It is a direct transmission of what is
real, toward a particular person. That person encounters what
I am, and thereby realises what he or she really is."
On what authority can somebody say
John: "The supreme authority is only what you as
consciousness absolutely know. Anything that you honestly, absolutely
do not know, you do not have authority to speak. When I am speaking
of what I know, the authority and what I am are inseparable.
So then the words and the energy are authority. Because I am
not speaking of what I think, or what somebody told me, or what
I have learned, then I am speaking of what I absolutely know,
of what I am. So there is a direct transmission."
Is this why the energy in the audience
is so high, and people start screaming?
John: "The energy in the
audience is so high because people are hearing from deeper and
deeper and deeper within. They are hearing from the very core
of their being. And the resonance of that is going right through
the mind, through the feelings and through the body, and there
is such an incredible tension build-up. When there is that much
happening in the mind, the emotions and the body, people are
not accustomed to that. So all of that energy is built up to
a certain point and they scream. And the transmission just continues.
The energy in the room moves to the depth of the core of people's
being, and that energy is cracking people open as consciousness.
What comes up is an irresistible pull that bypasses the mind,
understanding and concepts. People find themselves called to
a supreme priority within - to be close to
that transmission at whatever it costs. It defies their patterned
human behaviour, and they find themselves saying within: 'I must
be near this'."
A SPONTANEOUS AWAKENING
How did this start in the life of
John? Was there any special contact with God?
John: "When I was young, the concept of God did not exist
for me. During that time, when someone spoke of God as something
that was real, I was hearing something that seemed unbelievable.
I would be astonished, I would be amazed when somebody could
believe in God, because I had no such connection. But when Iwas
seventeen, unexpectedly, I was propelled into a deep state of
true inner contentment. It was like a reunion with everything
that was real. It was like a universal reality within, connecting
with a universal outer reality. It was all the same. What was
apparent to me was that this was union with God, with the Divine,
with Truth - within, without. There was no difference. It was
all pure union with what is absolutely real. There was no end
within, and no end without. It was all one."
How was this reality different from
what we call real, like a real table in front of us?
John: "It was a totally different reality. It was connecting
with an absolute, liquid intimacy within. It was the purest liquid
gold of love, within and without. The communication with that
was absolute intimacy, absolute love, absolute clarity, absolute
ease, absolute healing. And every cell of my body was full of
this, and it was clear that there was nothing else in the universe
- this is it."
Did it stay during eating, walking, working?
John: "There was nothing that interfered with it. That was
the absolute. Anything else was subjective. What was real was
the union with the Divine ."
How was the Christian church involved in this?
John: "Then I began going to the church, because this 'incredibleness'
was happening within, and I wanted to go to find the same. I
went to the church, but it was not there. In my mind I related
it to God. After a year, I lost it whatever I had been experiencing,
was gone. Then I became a seeker. I tried to get back what I
had experienced. It took several years, agonising, searching
and looking, and trying inwardly and outwardly - a kind of searching
that was basically tearing me apart."
UNVEILING WHAT IS
John: "Then I went to a complete
letting go: being totally and unconditionally content to be inside
of what I perceived to be darkness, and warmly and unconditionally
letting go of needing to get any kind of light inside trying
to change anything trying to get somewhere. That was the point
at which it was like I went home - giving up everything that
I had been searching for. I remained in that for a number of
years, just being home in any kind of light, any kind of darkness,
happiness, sorrow, pain, peace. It no longer made any difference."
Is this now, twelve years later, still
like this? What I heard is that author and historian Professor
Steven Kent who specialises in world cults and new religions
at the University of Alberta, Canada, recently stated in a newspaper
article: "This is the beginning of a new religion. This
is how they start," and that you replied: "Reality
does not ever originate from religion, rather religion can arise
from reality, and on its own, falls. I am not starting a new
religion, I am unveiling what is real." Didn't Jesus say
the same? Didn't he say that he came to 'reveal what is secret'?
John: "What is happening in these transmissions, what is
happening in being in these meetings, is being what I am. It
is being a living embodiment of Truth. It is being and talking
with people, that creates a corresponding pull within them to
be in the same energy. It is the little bit within them, which
is exactly the same as what I am, responding and loving what
it is encountering. When I am being what I am in meeting people,
then what people are encountering is the Divine. What they are
encountering is a hugevolume of everything they always knew was
true within them, but could not seem to find. People are encountering
what they actually know, but in a massive way. They experience
such an inward response of being, because it is what they actually
know is real, that is responding."
NO VIRTUE IN MORALITY
AS IT IS
John: "Then I began going to the
church, because this 'incredibleness' was happening within, and
I wanted to go to find the same. I went to the church, but it
was not there. In my mind I related it to God. After a year,
I lost it whatever I had been experiencing, was gone. Then I
became a seeker. I tried to get back what I had experienced.
It took several years, agonising, searching and looking, and
trying inwardly and outwardly - a kind of searching that was
basically tearing me apart."
How does this affect the moral standards of people?
John: "There is no emphasis on morality because morality
as people define it is of an old structure that is seemingly
understood - contained and perceived in the mind. When we live
for that kind of moral structure, we live for something that
is in reality, dead.
We are not relating to what arises out of our innermost; to what
is ultimately new and completely clean and free of concepts,
thoughts and mental teaching. A moral structure confines consciousness,
and it limits it to a thought that says: 'do this and don't do
that, and then it is good'.
There is no virtue in what people commonly
call morality. There is only virtue in something that arises
from our innermost - from that which comes up from within us
and expresses itself outward. We cannot do that through the mind.
To do that through the mind is to employ a moral vehicle, a moral
structure, and that only makes us self-righteous, makes us judgmental
of others. When you have a moral structure and you live by moral
standards, then you are a 'somebody' who you perceive is more
than somebody else, or less than somebody else. But then it is
only a judge who is living. So everything is viewed through comparison,
through the judgement of oneself and the judgement of others.
Living in a moral code or moral.
At this moment of the interview, I see
the bright and powerful eyes of John. Is it a projection thatI
hear a resonance with the original sayings of Jesus, which have
recently by scientists, been
rediscovered in the Lost Gospel Q?: 'Don't judge', 'Friend, who
made me a judge?', 'Beware, you
who call yourselves perfect in your obedience to the lawWash
the inside of the cup, and it will all be clean'. 'Nothing is
secret that will not be revealed'. I ask John about this resonance
Jesus' words, and he gently nods with his head.
What then about the saying of Jesus:
'The kingdom of God is among you'?
John: "This is what I live
in. You can call it the kingdom of God, or the world of everything
that God is, or reality or Truth. The universe of God-stuff is
within. You cannot find it with the mind, you cannot find it
through thoughts, so you cannot use your world to catch it. In
that way, it is unassailable. But when the consciousness of a
human is completely relaxed and lets itself be quiet and gentle,
it finds itself within something that it always knew to be true.
It cannot do anything to get there. And it can only be there
without effort. One can only be immersed in it through simple,
openness and softness of heart."
I tell John that, in the audience
this afternoon, a woman next to me suddenly whispered: 'I see
an angel'. Is that a world with which he is familiar?
John: "I communicate with other beings, beings who do not
have a body. Some of them - you can call them benevolent beings
- are beings who are not embodied and are completely 'home' -
beings of truth. And there are other beings that I encounter.
They are extremely powerful beings, but they are beings like
people on this planet - they are not 'home'. They are beings
of untruth, beings that have a personal agenda to take and to
manipulate, and to do things thatare not true to do. I encounter
How to discern?
John: "The discernment between the two is the same as the
discernment within yourself: if a thought comes to your mind,
or if somebody is teaching you something that does not move your
being with the pure nectar that you know within, then do not
believe it. However impressive it may be, do not believe it.
But when nectar touches your heart - it does not matter how ridiculous
it may seem to your mind - believe it, because this is how you
know. You cannot use the mind. Use the knowing of your heart.
When you are truly in love with this nectar, and when a being
of untruth comes, it can project into your mind thoughts, suggestions
and powerful experiences. These nectar there because that being
cannot transmit nectar unless within itself, it is being in a
true way. But for that kind of discernment, one has to be 'home'.
One has to be aligned with Truth itself, which is nectar. And
that is how you know the difference.
A tiny little child in this way knows the difference. That is
how a little child discerns. A little child does not discern
with the mind; he or she discerns on the basis of what he or
she already knows. If it doesn't touch his or her heart, that
child feels apprehensive and leaves it. If there is nectar in
it; if it moves that child's being, then he or she knows that
this is real, whether there is understanding or not."
Is this what people call intuition?
John: "This is much deeper than intuition. Intuition is
the capacity to release energy so that the intuitive body works
for your present way of being. If you are dishonest within, and
if you have a personal agenda within, then your intuition helps
to serve that personal agenda.
So, if your present way of being is not one that is real, not
one that is honest, then the mind, emotions and intuition accommodate
what you are presently being. People usually use the intuition
for the defence of their ego."
Is the same happening with 'positive thinking'?
John: "Positive thinking is not an honest awareness; positive
thinking is a doing. There is an agenda to achieve something,
there is an agenda to control, there is an agenda to do - to
be the master of one's thoughts and own feelings. There is an
agenda to refine everything within so as to have everything that
one wants. It is manufacturing and creating a personalised success
for a personal self. Positive thinking and positive affirmations
are dishonest, because these affirmations are not rooted in reality.
Reality is not positive affirmations, and reality is not negative
affirmations, but honest affirmations. It is allowing one's eyes
to open within, to see what one knows is real within oneself,
and to allow that to express itself through words.